Bow eye above or below roller on trailer?

[Ben G]

I would appreciate critiques/suggestion regarding a reconfiguration of how the Fleet trailer secures the bow of the boat.

Currently, when my SJ21 is on the trailer, the bow eye (on the boat hull) rests on top of the bow roller (on the trailer). From photos on the internet this seems typical (is it?). But when I launch, the stern floats/lifts which causes the bow to tip downward, securely anchoring the eye onto the roller. Then the jostling begins to get the eye off the roller. Retrieving is also frustrating.

So, I'm thinking the eye should be under the roller??? Thus, I've begun scheming how best to accomplish this and removed the whole trailer bow roller fixture with winch and mast yoke. What I noticed is that when the bow is not secured, the trailer becomes rather "springy". It bounces/flexes quite a bit along the span between contact points with the ground (wheels-to-tongue) . This flex is all but eliminated when the bow is secure to the roller. I think the bow will be secure regardless of whether the eye is above or below the roller -- is this correct?

To relocate the roller above the eye, I am going to cut out the vertical post on the bow roller fixture and weld in a new post that is 2-1/2" taller.

Previoulsy, I replaced bunks and played around with moving the boat foward/backward on the trailer for proper tongue weight. The cross beams on the trailer do have some sag -- perhaps an inch.

I've yet to figure out what the intent of the orignal trailer set up is with regard to my launch/retrieve difficulties, so the above modification to the trailer is my next step. Is this ill-advised? What am I missing?

Thanks all.

[San Juan Sailboats]

Another thing to think about is a forward hull support roller.
I have seen some trailers that have nothing forward under the bow. When you put the boat in, the stern lifts and the bow goes down. If there is a support forward, the bow cant go down.
However, your description of the eye resting on the roller does not sound right.
Does this trailer have bunks or rollers? How many bunks/rollers?
Can you lift the front of the bunks to get the eye off the roller?

[cguthrie]

Fleet Cap'n Trailers, like many of the SJ21s mfged in New Bern, are put together only by approximation. I've seen them that are stern heavy (tongue light) no matter how far forward the boat is placed and vise versa, tongue heavy no matter how far back the boat is placed. Obviously, the boat needs to be placed so that it is properly supported by the rollers and bunks. Too far forward and the bunks poke into the stern quarters, too far back and they poke into the bow. Once the boat is properly supported move the winch/roller stand so that the roller just touches the hull. There's not much to be done about tongue weight unless you want to move the axle location. When traveling the frame does flex which will leave a black mark on the bow where the roller touches; but it allows the boat to be stationary. Securing the bow so the trailer doesn't flex will put pressure on the front corners of the bunks which will put nice stress cracks in the hull if you are lucky, nice holes if you are not.
If you replace the axle from the original skinny looking 1 1/4 inch square tube with a 2 inch round one it will bottom out on the frame when hitting a bump and cause the side rails to start bending until a noticable drop appears from the wheels back.
I think, but I haven't tried yet, the best way to stiffen the side rails is to weld a 1/4 flat plate to the inside of the c-channel thus making it into a square tube. To fix the replaced axle bending the frame, weld a 6 ft piece of 1.5 x 3 inch square tube on top of the frame centered fore and aft over the axle and then cut a 6 inch piece out of the frame to give the axle clearance to move up and down.

Cal Guthrie
Yellow Juan #360

[Ben G]

Stephen,
For my Fleet trailer, the following apply:
1. There are 4 keel rollers. One at each cross beam on the trailer. The rear most roller under the stern is not in contact with the hull. This is intentional because the hull is thin with no structural member in that area. There is a roller at either end of the swing keel and supports the keel when the keel cable is relaxed for trailering. A fourth roller is forward of the swing keel and supports the hull at that point.
2. I agree that the eye atop the roller is not right. I've noticed various other boats that retrieval is much simpler because the trailer fits the boat. I'm hoping to achieve that fit.
3. There are two 12-ft bunks that support the hull.
4. Bunks and rollers are not adjustable unless cut and re-welded.

CaL,
"Put together by approximation" pretty much says it all. It certainly confirms that some adjustment or customization of the trailer is needed to counter the variation that you describe.

Regarding proper support of the boat and weight distribution, I've worked thru those issues and now must deal with trailer flex and eye atop roller. With the winch stand removed, and me jogging the trailer with my foot (centered on the main beam between axle and tongue), the bow eye bounces up/down 2 or 3 inches. This bounce is nearly eliminated/absorbed when the bow is winched snugly to the roller, regardless of whether the eye contacts the roller. If I relocate the roller above the eye, it will be consistent with general boat/trailer configurations and hopefully simplify launch/retrieve. A urethane roller will avoid the black marks produced by a rubber roller.

Looking at various photos of SJ21s on Fleet trailers, a common practive apparently is to not snug the bow to the roller, but leave the boat 6 to 12 inches away from the bow roller. This is how my boat was sitting on the trailer when I got it. While this makes launch/retrieve easier, it is not safe practice for trailering.

Another base that I covered is replacement of the leaf springs. I've experienced spring failure at highway speed with a smaller boat and figured I'd take preventive measures for the SJ21. The square tube axle works for me, but if I went to a 2" pipe, I would consider different springs such that the axle mounts over the spring and/or the C-dimension is suitable to avoid collision between axle/frame. Different springs can also offer an opportunity to move the axle for changing tongue weight.

To stiffen the side rails, I would avoid making a square tube by welding the 1/4 flat plate to the outside of the C-channel. Tubes will hold sand/grit which hold moisture -- which rusted my other boat's galvanized trailer tongue from the inside out.

So, the plan at this point for my Fleet trailer is to raise the bow roller by 8" which will put it 6" above the bow eye.

... for any others with the Feet trailer: Please add your experience and trailer set up to this thread. Is your eye above/below the roller? How far? Do you snug the bow to the roller? Do you have any difficulty at launch/retrieve?

THANK YOU!

[cklamp]

Eh, put me in the "lucky dog" dept I guess... My Fleet Cptn sits the bow eye above the roller but I have no issues launching. It goes off, and comes back on, and I can cinch it down hard. Other's in my fleet have had all sorts of issues like you guys are describing... issues launching, issues with their keel fairings hitting the keel board, etc...

I do have a keel roller... and I HAD a bow roller, but it's gone now in favor of a "cradle" as the bow roller was causing a divot in the bow and cracked gel coat that had to be fixed.

Honestly, it sounds to me like if the bow end of your trailer is flexing that much, you might want to make sure the tongue isn't rusting out. I did have to have a new trailer tongue welded onto my fleet cptn as the one it came with rusted out and started spewing water out along it's length when I pulled the boat out of the water once.

Could also be just a difference in Ride's that people tow with too...

Later
Christian

[kingtoros]

I am sorry to resurrect what appears to be a centuries old topic. However, in acquiring Hull #2549 I am having these exact issues.

I took the trailer to a local shop and they replaced the bearings hubs as I lost a lug. Read, Lug, not lug nut.

My current issues:
1. Not enough tongue weight. This causes two issues:

• Over any bump at any speed the bow of the boat wants to rise off the trailer and take flight. Too bad it's not a helicopter...
• Over 55mph the trailer fish tails and threatens to lose control.
• While parked, unhitched, a leaf landing on the stern will lift the tongue into the air preparing the boat to launch like a rocket... Too bad it's not a rocket...

2. The trailer is low to the ground, which is okay... This causes the stern to float up very early in the launching process and causes the boat to stay far aft on the trailer when trying to retrieve. This is the opposite problem I had with #2555 and the EZ-Load trailer.

I am going to launch the boat this weekend and take more detailed photos of the trailer. My plan is to replace some of the rubber rollers as the bow roller scraped more paint off of the boat than I care to admit and attempt to adjust the winch assembly which is attached to the trailer with two U bolts forward until I achieve some tongue weight.

Admittedly this course could cause the leading edge of the bunks to apply greater pressure to the hull than it can handle. I intent to swap out the bunk supports if this is the case and lower them by a quarter inch or so.

I would appreciate any further thoughts you guys may have. Apart from buying a new trailer... They're more expensive than our boats are valued at today lol

[kuriti]

After losing a wheel on the highway at 65mph, I lost faith in the pitted axle and hubs. I replaced The whole axle for about $150. I had it done at the shop where I bought it and they didn’t charge for installation, including moving the mounting brackets to fit my trailer. I assume for a few dollars more, they could relocate the axle aft to achieve a better balance. I had a similar issue and moved my winch up and I remove my outboard when towing any distance of note. When hauling to the coast, I load all my crap in the bow to help. Mine wasn’t fish tailing, but any bump had it bucking the hitch scarily.

[kingtoros]

After losing a wheel on the highway at 65mph, I lost faith in the pitted axle and hubs.

That sounds scary! Sounds like you were able to come to a stop and swap out a wheel? Or did you have to get towed somehow?

I replaced The whole axle for about $150. I had it done at the shop where I bought it and they didn’t charge for installation, including moving the mounting brackets to fit my trailer. I assume for a few dollars more, they could relocate the axle aft to achieve a better balance.

I specifically asked about this and because on the New Bern trailers the brackets for the springs and such are welded in, the shop I took it to refused. My repairs (two new hubs, mounting two tires onto rims, one new rim, new rear lights) cost around $650 all in.

I wasn't able to get out last weekend, so I don't have the detailed photos of the trailer as yet.

[kuriti]

Here is the full story:

http://www.sj21class.org/phpbb2/viewtop ... 19&t=10133

[Steve]

Ben, make sure that wherever you have the eye, when you winch there's upward pull rather than downward. If upward, the boat will move along the bunks fairly easily. If downward, not only will there be too much friction, but you'll compress the hull on the bunks, causing them to dent.