Swagging vs compression fittings for rigging

[kuriti]

As threatened in other posts, I am on the precipice of replacing all of my standing rigging. I have a sailor friend who is a stickler for detail (read: obsessive compulsive) who claims that anything less than swagging is akin to a suicide pact. I like the idea of using sta-loc or some other compression type fitting for a couple of reasons: part of the joy of boat ownership is doing it yourself, one less place i have to go to get things done, no delay if something breaks. I am not sure which is more expensive. The debate seemed to be a draw in the cruisers forum i read. the main caveat being that compression fittings are inferior if done incorrectly. Plenty of them use compression and their boats are under significantly more pressure than ours. what say ye?

kuriti

[CaptainMorgan]

I use the Stalok fittings on my 1977 SJ21 and love them. When I go cruising and I need to fix a stay or shroud...all I need is a wrench and locktite...which I keep both on board. For emergency rigging a friend who works on the power lines gave me 3 compression fittings that have a loop on the end so if you don't have enough cable, you can use a line. I figured if they would hold up a utility pole and lines...they should work on my SJ21. They are made from SS and are the right size for my cable stays.

[Diarmuid]

As well to say swaging is inferior if done incorrectly. What matters is that compression fittings are stronger than swages (swedges, whatever) when BOTH are done correctly. And to be honest, it is pretty damned hard to screw up a compression fitting.

Compressions are specified by many top NAs on high-end yachts, because they are stronger and slightly less prone to crevice corrosion. Swaging is preferred on production yachts, because it is cheaper. Using all compression fittings can double the cost of standing rigging on a boat. The fittings are expensive. I believe I paid $18 for the 1/8" Hayn Hi-Mod toggle/terminal I used when adding a backstay adjuster.

ASIDE: The OEM cable on some SJ21s, while nominally 1/8" 1x19 stainless wire, is in fact slightly oversized. I've put a micrometer on it, and it ain't 1/8". That's true all around the boat. My forestay had been replaced by the P.O. when roller furling was added; that measured in at 0.124". But the stock forestay, which came as spare parts, was 0.132, just like the shrouds and backstay. Be warned! If adding compression fittings to existing rigging, you may encounter fit issues. I had to use a jeweler's file to enlarge the 'gear washer' slots of the Hayn fitting to accommodate the fatter strands.



That said, when we replace our standing rig this Spring, I may buy the fittings and do the work myself. I have total confidence in Hayn, Norseman, or Sta-Lock. They have been bench-tested thoroughly and used on much larger boats than ours under ocean conditions, and they have performed beautifully. But it will come down to cost: I also plan to replace the lousy closed-body OEM turnbuckles with open ones, and that may mean opting for swages over compression fittings. We need to sit down and do a dollar-for-dollar comparison.

(When we buy our cruising boat, I plan to replace the rod or wire with synthetic rigging, but that's another whole topic. )

[kuriti]

Great replies guys, thanks! I will make a spreadsheet as i work through it (excel makes everything better) and share. i intend to replace everything except the chainplates, including re-riveting all the hardware to the mast. Does anyone know a rigger/swager in the Raliegh area so i can get an idea of cost? also, has anyone ever just gone to the local wire rope supplier and had them do the swagging?

thanks,

Kuriti

[Diarmuid]

Hooo. The problem with swaging is it, too, needs to be done right. Does your local wire rope shop have a proper roller swager? Some West Marines have one, but I sometimes wonder how well-trained the people operating the machine are. The thing about swages, of course, is that they only as strong as the initial crimp. That is, they don't get tighter as more force is applied -- unlike a rope splice or compression fitting. Actually, they get looser, as the wire inside the swage elongates and thins, a process called 'necking.' So a swage has to be absolutely within tolerance to achieve its intended strength. Hammer or crimp swaging is not as strong as roller swaging.

(People get real upset that Hayn doesn't even supply torque values for their compression fittings; instructions just say "tighten until snug." Hayn replies that initial torque is not critical, because the wedge-like geometry of the cone ensures the fitting will find its own proper compression.)

Ja, good idea with the spreadsheet. Find out how much each swage will cost, then put that against compressions. Nice thing about the SJ21 is that it doesn't have that many fittings to begin with. You may find that subtracting the materials and labor of swaged ends makes DIY compressions cost-equivalent. You could also think about swages at the hounds, and compression fittings down low. Doing your own riveting is easy. Remember to goop on a galvanic inhibitor if using SS rivets. And I like laying down a piece of electrical tape under any SS item I bolt, screw, or rivet to the stick. Pls do share your decisions and the cost of refitting a SJ21. I'm eager to know what this will ding us in March. You going with different turnbuckles?

ETA: You should talk to Rig-Rite. They have a reputation for good prices, service, and quality; and they can advise you on swage vs. compression fittings. Kinda grumpy some mornings, but aren't we all.)

http://www.rigrite.com/

Defender also does rigging at good prices. Many shops like you to mail in your old shrouds and stays, to prevent measuring error.